Posts by Anony Mous

17

What would Watchtower Corporation(tm) do?

by punkofnice in

what would watchtower corporation(tm) do in compromise of their 'north korean style rules' if by publicly removing them, they could get more money and power?.

if each governing body(tm) member (pee be upon them), were offered a few million quid/bucks each to rescind the barbaric 'no whole blood' rule?.

i know what i think these fake religionists would do.

Anony Mous

I’m not sure they’re all true believers. They may have a sense of belief, but they cannot be true hardcore believers like some people in congregations are. Once you get to those levels of the org (anyone appointed to RBC/circuit or other multi-congregation work can attest to this) there are a ton of things you have to see through that no sane person could honestly accept if they are true God-fearing Christians. The financial accounting only should have people understand the amount of grift that goes on.

I think that most GB members and their staff know it’s a big lie, even if they believe in the core tenets. The problem in any dictatorship is the people around you. There ARE people that will claim to be true believers and happily stab each other in the back just for the power, if not the money. That may be what happened to the last reject of the GB, he grew a conscience stronger than his drinking habits.

Watch “The Death of Stalin” which is historically very accurate, the fact the series of events depicted is what actually happened in real life turns the entire thing a dark comedy. You have to see what I mean, but that IS no different than the GB and JW leadership, I think that is what happened to Morris, he was spiritually (perhaps literally) laying in his own piss dying, people around him were too afraid to do anything constructive to not offend anyone with power while those closest to the top immediately started scheming for the looming power void.

Once you get to Bethel, you lose everything, you lose your family, your job, your support system. You “leave” and are instantly homeless with no skills to speak of.

15

And the lion shall eat straw like the ox

by Anony Mous in

the above verse is often quoted by jws both in general as a response to the idea of a deathless paradise and/or those promoting vegetarianism or veganism.. a letter in animal frontiers co-signed by nearly a thousand scientists is now warning that meat is crucial for a healthy lifestyle and livestock farming is too important to 'become the victim of zealotry'.. they stated the fact that most humans require the nutrients from eggs, meat and dairy and that plant based alternatives are at least 4x more expensive (which implies much higher energy consumption in the process) and not scalable and outright dangerous to global health to support a large population shift towards them.. they also called out several recent papers for misleading information and even called for the outright retraction of one that said meat substitutions are a viable alternative.. not sure what the modern jw view on this is, i know many people in the borg promoted it back in the day.

just goes to show that science does not support the notion of a global vegan diet..

Anony Mous

@Fisherman: Evolution happens over millions of year for anything as it takes an entire reproduction cycle to make minor changes. Even if you said humans would evolve and that evolution would be guided, we've evolved to be omnivores in over 65 million years.

The WTBTS and most apocalyptic cults claim that overnight Armageddon happens and within 1 day you're perfect in the flesh unlike most other religions, including true Christians that claim salvation and resurrection happen in the spirit realm.

The Bible doesn't know anything about tigers because the writers likely never came into contact with even a depiction of one until after the destruction of the temple and exodus to Babylon in 586/587BC where even there they would've been exotic. As far as lions, the Bible doesn't clarify anything about the garden of Eden because it is allegorical, not literal. We do know that God clothed Adam and Eve in animal skins - an inherent reference that the writers expected God to accept the killing of animals for its properties but that is (if you take the Bible literally) diametrically opposed with what Isaiah claims.

Beyond the direct killers, the entire ecosystems is also built on the fact things die, scavengers, bugs, fertilization most of what you eat today is only possible because of stuff that died yesterday. Again, things the Bible writers wouldn't have a clue about, but nonetheless now have to be taken into account.

17

What would Watchtower Corporation(tm) do?

by punkofnice in

what would watchtower corporation(tm) do in compromise of their 'north korean style rules' if by publicly removing them, they could get more money and power?.

if each governing body(tm) member (pee be upon them), were offered a few million quid/bucks each to rescind the barbaric 'no whole blood' rule?.

i know what i think these fake religionists would do.

Anony Mous

There's a big if there. Short term, it would give them money but they would lose substantial amounts of power and future revenue. We already know if you personally have enough money, then the rules can bend around you, but the rules for the masses have to remain in place.

Kim Jong-Un is rich beyond belief, he'd likely make a lot more money opening up the country to capitalism, but there are major risks to his power being usurped by people that would do better than him in short terms if he did that. There is a fine balance in dictatorships.

15

And the lion shall eat straw like the ox

by Anony Mous in

the above verse is often quoted by jws both in general as a response to the idea of a deathless paradise and/or those promoting vegetarianism or veganism.. a letter in animal frontiers co-signed by nearly a thousand scientists is now warning that meat is crucial for a healthy lifestyle and livestock farming is too important to 'become the victim of zealotry'.. they stated the fact that most humans require the nutrients from eggs, meat and dairy and that plant based alternatives are at least 4x more expensive (which implies much higher energy consumption in the process) and not scalable and outright dangerous to global health to support a large population shift towards them.. they also called out several recent papers for misleading information and even called for the outright retraction of one that said meat substitutions are a viable alternative.. not sure what the modern jw view on this is, i know many people in the borg promoted it back in the day.

just goes to show that science does not support the notion of a global vegan diet..

Anony Mous

@Bluesbrother: I’ve seen people claiming that you can’t eat rare steak because of the heme (which they say is blood). Medium and beyond done steaks are an abomination in the face of the lord imho.

As far as cultures that don’t eat (much) meat (such as India and Africa) this is mostly by necessity and not by choice. They generally still eat dairy, animal fat and eggs when available. Those regions, as a result, also have high mortality across the board, especially amongst children and infants. Many may be dependent on insects, rodents or “bush” meat and the associated diseases (eg the Spanish flu and many Coronavirus variants spring from Chinese regions eating wild birds and bats as a protein source)

73

"Jehovah" In The New Testament.

by LostintheFog1999 in

i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

Anony Mous

@slimboy and @scholar; both your arguments hinge on a broad interpretation of what a single scholar hypothesizes.

There is no other evidence other than a few fringe theologians taking a (real) scholar like Tov or Howard way beyond what they assert.

The fact you can find fragments that MAY be a form of the Tetragrammaton, overwhelming evidence is that the Tetragrammaton while present was not spoken, because the earliest Hebrew to Greek translations do not attempt to translate or transliterate it, nowhere do even the scriptures or contemporary writings point at the name of Gods amongst the Jewish people.

The other point is that if you have a single God (which was rare in the era of Greek and Roman pantheons) why would you name it? God is God, it doesn’t need a name if there is only one, the only clear “name” God gives himself across the scriptures is “eyer asher eyer” translated as “I become who I need to become” or “I am who I am” or in other places the (singular) God of Abraham and Jakob. Why God is so elaborate about this fact that he is singular is clearly explained across Hebrew scripture.

You’d think if it were so important to break from tradition, it would be clearly communicated.

15

And the lion shall eat straw like the ox

by Anony Mous in

the above verse is often quoted by jws both in general as a response to the idea of a deathless paradise and/or those promoting vegetarianism or veganism.. a letter in animal frontiers co-signed by nearly a thousand scientists is now warning that meat is crucial for a healthy lifestyle and livestock farming is too important to 'become the victim of zealotry'.. they stated the fact that most humans require the nutrients from eggs, meat and dairy and that plant based alternatives are at least 4x more expensive (which implies much higher energy consumption in the process) and not scalable and outright dangerous to global health to support a large population shift towards them.. they also called out several recent papers for misleading information and even called for the outright retraction of one that said meat substitutions are a viable alternative.. not sure what the modern jw view on this is, i know many people in the borg promoted it back in the day.

just goes to show that science does not support the notion of a global vegan diet..

Anony Mous

The above verse is often quoted by JWs both in general as a response to the idea of a deathless paradise and/or those promoting vegetarianism or veganism.

A letter in Animal Frontiers co-signed by nearly a thousand scientists is now warning that meat is crucial for a healthy lifestyle and livestock farming is too important to 'become the victim of zealotry'.

They stated the fact that most humans require the nutrients from eggs, meat and dairy and that plant based alternatives are at least 4x more expensive (which implies much higher energy consumption in the process) and not scalable and outright dangerous to global health to support a large population shift towards them.

They also called out several recent papers for misleading information and even called for the outright retraction of one that said meat substitutions are a viable alternative.

Not sure what the modern JW view on this is, I know many people in the borg promoted it back in the day. Just goes to show that science does not support the notion of a global vegan diet.

73

"Jehovah" In The New Testament.

by LostintheFog1999 in

i see they have updated their list of translations or versions where some form of yhwh or jhvh appears in the new testament.. https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/appendix-c/divine-name-new-testament-2/.

Anony Mous

Wow, another unsubstantiated claim from ‘scholar’, with accolades now too…

1. Copies of the Hebrew Scriptures used in the days of Jesus and his apostles contained the Tetragrammaton throughout the text.

Besides the lack of archeological evidence of Jesus actually existing at the time he was supposed to live, there is no extant fragment supporting the claim his apostles could even read. Jews do not pronounce the name as written. The interpretation of the pronouncement of the Tetragrammaton and the addition of vowels was by the Masoretes between 5th and 10th century CE.

2. In the days of Jesus and his apostles, the Tetragrammaton also appeared in Greek translations of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Written in Paleo-Hebrew, not translated or transliterated into Greek. It was considered unpronounceable and forbidden to be changed even in text or spoken.

3. The Christian Greek Scriptures themselves report that Jesus often referred to God's name and made it known to others.

No, they don’t, only the WTBTS makes this claim, see point 2. You’d think someone suddenly pronouncing the unpronounceable would’ve been noticed and the importance written down.

4. Since the Christian Greek Scriptures were an inspired addition to the sacred Hebrew Scriptures, the sudden disappearance of Jehovah's name from the text would seem inconsistent.

See point 2, it was established not to pronounce even in Greek translation, someone suddenly making it a thing would’ve caused an uproar and be noticed. Here you are claiming there exists some authority (inspiration) almost nobody accepts.

5. The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Given most were written and edited centuries after the events, this doesn’t make your argument that Jesus actually did.

6. Early Jewish writings indicate that Jewish Christians used the divine name in their writings.

Which ones? Please point to actual documents from the first century.

7. Some Bible scholars acknowledge that it seems likely that the divine name appeared in Hebrew Scripture quotations found in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Above here you asserted with absolute certainty this was common, now you’re asserting ‘some’ scholars agree with your viewpoint, if the evidence was clear, it would be ‘most’, not ‘some’

8. Recognized Bible translators have used God's name in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

Which is what we’re disputing the accuracy on

9. Bible translations in over one hundred languages contain the divine name in the Christian Greek Scriptures.

See point 8

4

One criticism of the NWT

by Wonderment in

it's no secret that forum members on this site are well aware that i tend to defend the nwt as a product in more than a few places.

i, unlike some others here, do not view the version as unprofessional.

i feel the translation is quite good.

Anony Mous

You require a WTBTS belief system in order to find the NWT acceptable and properly translated. To most Christians and theologians it is an abomination of a translation, several things are wholesale added or removed to fit their belief system which in itself is sacrilegious to most people.

Even the NWT has several edits over the decades to fit new teachings, the “green Bible” is different from the black one which is different from the gray one and some people that held onto their old translation or pointed out major differences were disfellowshipped and shunned. If you start religiously burning people at the stake for using your own old translation, then you are no better than the inquisition.

7

Jesus could not have died on Friday Nisan 14

by Hacche in

another reason that jesus trial before pontius pilate and his being nailed to the stake was not on the same day, as watchtower teach, is found in two scriptures.

john 19:14 says, now it was the day of preparation of the passover; it was about the sixth hour.

and he said to the jews: see your king.

Anony Mous

But as you pointed out, that doesn’t make sense, you have to look at it in the scope of the Jewish belief system. You can kill him on Passover, but not the day after that, you also can’t kill him a week later, for the same problem happens every week, you need to account for a Sabbath day, hence he couldn’t have died on a Friday, because depending on the scripture you pick, you then kill him or have the court proceedings on a Sabbath day. Likewise his resurrection couldn’t coincide with Sabbath as there are several days of his disciples running around.

The (modern translation) Bible is wrong and full of anachronisms because it was not written with the objective of a historical narrative. The modern tendency to ascribe historical accuracy to pre-renaissance writings is in itself a fallacy.

7

Jesus could not have died on Friday Nisan 14

by Hacche in

another reason that jesus trial before pontius pilate and his being nailed to the stake was not on the same day, as watchtower teach, is found in two scriptures.

john 19:14 says, now it was the day of preparation of the passover; it was about the sixth hour.

and he said to the jews: see your king.

Anony Mous

The Last Supper was a Passover Seder meal that Jesus Christ and his disciples ate to celebrate this event. The Passover Seder occurs at the beginning of Nisan 15. Hence Jesus died somewhere on Nisan 15 or on/after Nisan 17 depending on the source used (as you correctly infer, the gospels and subsequent commentaries such as Pauline writings make many different Jesus stories). But as you say, the gospels generally spell out ~2-3 days of trial and crucifixion.

Many Christians scripture however attempt to place Jesus’ death on Nisan 14 simply for the symbolic value of the sacrificial lamb.

The problem is then with chronology of the Passover meal, which would have to be done just by Jesus and his disciples early, which would be weird and would’ve definitely been noted as sacrilegious. This would’ve been brought as a charge against Jesus in the Sanhedrin.

Moreover, Jesus would not have been killed on the next day since that is a Sabbath day (Lev 23:5-7) and the Sanhedrin would not have convened on those days and the Romans would likely not have made a public punishment when the public was religiously prevented from attending. So make of that what you will, the whole story doesn’t make sense in context. It only exists within the symbolic value, but wouldn’t have happened in real life.